A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
How we cope and move forward after tragedy is different for everyone. For rapper Ab-Soul, taking time off was part of processing his pain. And a note - before we continue, the subject of suicide comes up in this story.
Back in 2012, the singer Alori Joh killed herself. She was Ab-Soul's longtime girlfriend - his high school sweetheart, actually. It's a pain he's carried for 10 years. He's lost other friends along the way. During the height of the pandemic, Ab-Soul attempted to take his own life, what he's called a suicidal blackout. Now, after a lengthy hiatus, he's back with a new album. It's titled after his real name, "Herbert."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CHURCH ON THE MOVE")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) I brought that fight. I fought like hell. I ran that race. I tripped. I fell. I got right back up. Quick, they calling for backup. I might bend them like Beckham. Spin around and pull right back up. Can't be faded like haircuts...
MARTÍNEZ: This new album plays like a memoir, as Ab-Soul comes to terms with how grief changed him.
AB-SOUL: I felt the disconnect between the people that mattered to me most. You get what I'm saying?
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
AB-SOUL: I became isolated and on my behalf. It's not like they left me. Like, oh, we not messing with you no more, bro. But they're, like, yo, come hang out. Why you not popping up? You get what I'm saying? So...
MARTÍNEZ: You left them.
AB-SOUL: I realized this, and I was, like, you know what? Let me take a year off and, like, really reset. And I just feel like I've been rapping every day, relentlessly, since I was a child, since I was, like, 12, 13...
MARTÍNEZ: Like 12 years old, right? Yeah.
AB-SOUL: Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm the rapper's rapper, you know? I love it. I took, like, a year and a half off - no writing, no recording. I even really stopped listening to music so much because I didn't want to get too much external influence.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HERBERT")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) They would never understand Herbert Anthony, how I handle trying to battle my insanity, how I played dodgeball with all the vanity, how I share my light like charity, how I kept the fear of God in humanity...
MARTÍNEZ: What you just said makes a ton of sense in what you named the album, which is "Herbert." Your name is Herbert Anthony Stevens IV. And you, kind of realizing that you were kind of separating yourself from everyone and then pulling yourself back, went into the name of the album because I always wonder when a rapper, who has a stage name, names an album under their real name, like Jay-Z "Life And Times Of...
AB-SOUL: Yeah.
MARTÍNEZ: ...Shawn Carter" (ph), Eminem "Marshall Mathers," even Queen Latifah, "The Dana Owens Album." I mean, I always wonder...
AB-SOUL: Ahh.
MARTÍNEZ: ...What that change is about.
AB-SOUL: Those were great examples. I think that, for me, it was a way to make sure that my foundation is sturdy. I didn't want to have the most punchlines, the most metaphors because that's what I'm known for.
MARTÍNEZ: I know. Was that...
AB-SOUL: Which is...
MARTÍNEZ: So when you said...
AB-SOUL: ...Which is great.
MARTÍNEZ: ...That - yeah. When you say that you're the rapper's rapper - so I'm surprised...
AB-SOUL: Right.
MARTÍNEZ: ...To hear you say that that's how you approached this album, considering...
AB-SOUL: Exactly.
MARTÍNEZ: ...Your long...
AB-SOUL: Yes.
MARTÍNEZ: ...History of maybe doing it different.
AB-SOUL: OK, like, for example, "It Be Like That." That was one of the most difficult songs that I've ever written because I went into it - I am not going to have one metaphor, not one simile. I'm just going to say how I feel in this song.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "IT BE LIKE THAT")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) My words don't rhyme no more. My life ain't live no more - live no more. My heights ain't high; they low. I ain't got time no more. Luck ain't on my side no more. I can't touch the sky no more.
And it was so difficult for me, man, because I started seeing how I actually write.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DO BETTER")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) Got to do better. I got to do better. I got to. Got to do better. I got to do better. I got to. Got to...
MARTÍNEZ: So let me ask you this, then. In "Do Better," a reference to your own suicide attempt, I mean, what was the thought on that, on addressing that song that way?
AB-SOUL: OK. I'm glad you asked that. I made the majority of this album prior to my incident. "Do Better" was recorded before my incident.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DO BETTER")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) Said I got to do better. I got to do better. I got to pick up the pieces and master the puzzle upon us. Look the man in the mirror in the eye and be honest. Slow down time, get back in line with my chakras.
I had started going to therapy already, so I was already open.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
AB-SOUL: That's what created that vibe. Now, after I did what I did, I'm sitting with my boy Moosa and, you know, we're crying together, you know? He's just happy that I'm alive, you know?
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
AB-SOUL: So for him to come back later and say, this is your testimony. This is what the people love you for. People tell me, like, that I've saved their lives. They may not mean that literally, but, you know, like...
MARTÍNEZ: No. I think they probably do.
AB-SOUL: For the record, I always reciprocate that - no, because you saved mine. By these people giving me a voice, they saved my life.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "DO BETTER")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) Got to do better. Got to do better today. Got to do better before it's too late. Shades stuck to my face. Hoodie...
MARTÍNEZ: I found that hip-hop artists, especially in the last few years, have spoken more openly about mental health issues.
AB-SOUL: I'm hoping that it is not just becoming a trendy thing - like, the mental health, go get therapy. I'm hoping that, you know, people are doing this with intent. I'm hoping that there aren't people that are just going to therapy because they heard one of their favorite rappers do it. You have to find a therapist that you connect with, if you're able to, with a goal to unpack trauma, to be their best.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, when I got the album, "Herbert," emailed to me and I clicked play, before you even start rapping, the first thing I heard...
AB-SOUL: (Laughter).
MARTÍNEZ: ...In "Message in a Bottle" is your grandmother. She makes an - Let's listen to your grandmother...
AB-SOUL: (Clapping).
MARTÍNEZ: ...Give you, Herbert, a message.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE")
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Hey, Herb. It's Grandma. I found the scripture, and I thought about you. It says, for what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul? Mark 8:36. Herb, I'm praying for you. Grandma love you.
AB-SOUL: Yeah.
MARTÍNEZ: So, Herb, what do you think about this particular verse made her think of you? Because, I mean, if my grandma called me and told me that this particular verse made her think of me, I'd be, like, evaluating myself. I'd be, like, wondering, why would she pick that verse?
AB-SOUL: Oh, well, obviously, my grandma, you know, was aware - this was after my incident. I'm sure I was heavy on her heart. Me and my grandma do talk often. We're connected. That didn't - like, I didn't consider why she would hit me with that. It was just profound. She knows I'm good. She can hear it in my voice. She knows where my heart - you know what I'm saying?
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
AB-SOUL: I'm going to ask her now.
(LAUGHTER)
AB-SOUL: I'm going to call her and ask her now. Like, Grandma why did you send me that? Did - what - did it mean something else?
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
AB-SOUL: I just thought it was tight because my grandma still pray for me. I'm grateful that I - my grandma still alive, you know? But I'm going to ask her now.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MOONSHOOTER")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) It's kill or be killed, not heal or be healed. Fake is the new real...
MARTÍNEZ: That is artist Ab-Soul. His new album is called "Herbert." Thank you very much for sharing your time with us.
AB-SOUL: Man, I appreciate you guys.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "MOONSHOOTER")
AB-SOUL: (Rapping) Huh, the last dragon, flame thrower.
MARTÍNEZ: If you or someone you know may be considering suicide or in crisis, call or text the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Just those three digits - 988.
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