BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:
You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE FROM NPR. I'm Brittany Luse. And today on the show, we're going to consider the himbo (ph). If you don't know what a himbo is, let me put you on. They're men. They're sweet. They're hot. And they're a little naive about the world, but they're always having a great time. And one of the greatest himbos of our age is Lance Arroyo on Max's "The Other Two."
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE OTHER TWO")
JOSH SEGARRA: (As Lance Arroyo) My name is Lance Arroyo. I really want to dab right now. But I tried backstage, and the plastic on my shirt almost ripped off my nips, so I can't.
LUSE: "The Other Two" is about two siblings, Cary and Brooke Dubek, who are trying to break into the entertainment industry just as their younger brother becomes a Justin Bieberesque (ph) star.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE OTHER TWO")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) His homemade music video, "I Want To Marry You At Recess," has racked up 22 million views in just three days.
LUSE: It's a smart comedy about show business and celebrity culture. And Lance the himbo, Brooke's love interest, is somehow the only good guy among a sea of morally flexible status-climbers. He's a bright spot of positivity in the show's general cynicism, and the actor who plays Lance, Josh Segarra - he brings that same positive energy off the screen.
Can I get a nice, big - let's go - from you?
SEGARRA: Of course you can. Let's go.
LUSE: (Laughter).
SEGARRA: Let's go. Hell yeah.
LUSE: I sat down with Josh to get a deeper understanding of the himbo ideal and why himbos are having such a big moment. Stay with us.
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LUSE: Josh Segarra, welcome to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE.
SEGARRA: Thanks a lot, Brittany - pumped to be here.
LUSE: So something that I noticed in the third season of "The Other Two" specifically is that, like, your character is shirtless in almost every episode of the season. Like...
SEGARRA: (Laughter).
LUSE: ...There's a couple of times where it's just - he's in public - just no shirt on. Like, is that something they asked you to do or is that a character choice that you made?
SEGARRA: Brittany, let's talk about this, OK?
LUSE: Let's talk about this.
SEGARRA: Now, I think that honestly just started as a bit and ended as a full-on gag. Just, like - how hilarious would it be if Lance is just shirtless at random times? You know, just in a Broadway theater, sleeping shirtless - I had a good time with it, Brittany. I did.
(LAUGHTER)
SEGARRA: You know, how much more free can you be at work when you're walking around in, you know, random neighborhood in New York City just heading to and from work with a robe on because you're shirtless that day, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: To talk a little bit about how you got onto "The Other Two," we've got to talk a little bit about how the character of Lance originated. Like, Lance is the nicest, sweetest, kindest, most thoughtful person, and he's done a variety of jobs over the course of the series, like being a streetwear shoe designer.
SEGARRA: Absolutely.
LUSE: Kind of dabbling in fame himself - but he was originally meant to be, like, this, like, bookish guy who worked at a Medieval Times, like, restaurant.
SEGARRA: Yeah.
LUSE: Obviously, that didn't happen.
SEGARRA: No.
LUSE: We read that your audition caused the writers to change the character so he was more similar to, like, some of your characteristics. Like, I wonder what elements of Lance did they full-on base off of you or your performance at your audition? Like, where are the similarities between you and Lance?
SEGARRA: Well, I don't know if I'm - I don't know if I can actually answer that question. You'd have to ask Chris and Sarah, so they can give you the truth.
LUSE: For the listeners out there, those are the writers of "The Other Two."
SEGARRA: I guess one day they came up to give me a note early on, and it was like - you know, can you try this? And I was like, hell yeah. And they're like, OK, well, now hell yeah is how he responds to everything. That's what Chris and Sarah have given me - the opportunity to make this character my own. You know, there's a line in the first episode of Season 3 of "The Other Two," and we're talking to some guests at the "Night Nurse" premiere. And I say to Brooke, I'm like - yeah, remember, you watched all seasons of "Survivor"...
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE OTHER TWO")
SEGARRA: (As Lance) ...And "Grey's Anatomies" plus all of "The Circle."
DREW TARVER: (As Cary) Oh, God, I watched so much pandemic TV, but I couldn't do "The Circle."
HELENE YORKE: (As Brooke) Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't watch "The Circle."
SEGARRA: The line is "Grey's Anatomy," but my mom says "Grey's Anatomies." It's a very Puerto Rican way of saying it. And Sarah came up to me - she was like, did you say "Grey's Anatomies"? So I was like, yes. That's Puerto Rican. And she's like, great. That's staying in the cut. You know, like - and those are the things that they let me play with. I grew up in Orlando. I also worked at this spot called Just For Feet, which is an athletic shoe store - Just For Feet.
LUSE: Just For Feet. That's not what I thought - a shoe store was not the first thing...
SEGARRA: (Laughter).
LUSE: ...I thought of, but yeah.
SEGARRA: We used to wear red polos and whistles around, and there was a half-court, little basketball court there. It was in Altamonte Springs, Fla., where I grew up. And...
LUSE: Oh, yeah.
SEGARRA: ...So maybe they - they didn't even need to know that I worked at Just For Feet to know that I had the look of somebody that worked at an athletic shoe store. You know, he works at the Footlocker, and he's an aspiring shoe designer. And when we meet him - and I'll forever remember that first scene where I'm sitting down with the Dubeks at dinner, you know, and Pat, you know, Mama Dubek - she's like, so, Lance, what have you been working on?
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE OTHER TWO")
SEGARRA: (As Lance) You know what? I actually came up with three new ideas for shoes today. One - laces on the bottom. Two - shoes but invisible. Three - edible shoes.
MOLLY SHANNON: (As Pat) Wait, I'm sorry. So you just walk around in the shoes all day and then eat them?
SEGARRA: (As Lance) Hell yeah, if you hungry.
SHANNON: (As Pat) Oh, my God.
SEGARRA: And no, let's be clear. There are some ideas that we have come up with on the show that I've seen played out in real life, OK? There is a dry-erase shoe now that you can take a marker and draw on the side of the shoe, and I believe Nike makes it for you. There was also a full-on fashion show that I saw last year with see-through panels, OK? So they - somebody's watching "The Other Two" and deciding that Lance is an incredible designer, OK? I need my boy Lance - not me - but I need my boy Lance to get some residuals, OK? I need somebody...
LUSE: Cut Lance a check.
SEGARRA: ...To toss him a couple of coins. Exactly. Cut Lance a check. Let's go.
LUSE: So you play Lance, of course, fantastically. And Lance has been embraced by fans of the show for being what I have called the platonic ideal of a himbo. I wonder - and I'm not the only person that - you can Google it. It comes up.
SEGARRA: (Laughter).
LUSE: This is not just a tweet of mine from last fall.
SEGARRA: (Laughter).
LUSE: What do you see as the essential characteristics of a himbo?
SEGARRA: I think fiercely loyal is the first thing that comes to mind - fiercely loyal, good-natured and fun, you know? He's just fun. He's trying to have a good time, you know? Like, come on now, [expletive] ain't that serious all the time. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's just trying to have a good time. Like, remember that scene when Brooke is like, well, what things are classic Brooke? To Lance, these things are amazing. He's like, Brooke always has deodorant on the outside of her clothing.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE OTHER TWO")
SEGARRA: (As Lance) Doesn't brush her teeth.
YORKE: (As Brooke) Well, no, not at night. I want to go to sleep. Next.
SEGARRA: (As Lance) She lies for fun. She steals from Starbucks. She never drinks water. She falls asleep during plays.
YORKE: (As Brooke) OK, No. No, no, no. No, I - no. I want to stop.
SEGARRA: Yo, that's awesome. That's so good about you. I love that about you, Brookie monster, you know? I love it. It's good. It's good.
LUSE: Those are three qualities that I think anybody would want in somebody who's going to be close to them, you know?
SEGARRA: Absolutely. I think about that gym scene between Lance and Cary. You know, Cary's sitting there on the bench, and he's all stressed about "Watch What Happens Live." And all of a sudden, Lance walks in. He's like, oh, hell yeah. And he sits there, and Cary's telling him, like, you know, I'm just insecure, man, you know? Like, what if I don't look good shirtless, you know?
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE OTHER TWO")
SEGARRA: (As Lance) Listen to me. You are a beautiful man, and your body is tight. Say it.
TARVER: (As Cary) I am a beautiful man, and my body is tight.
SEGARRA: (As Lance) Good.
Dude, we all need a Lance at that moment in time. We all feel that way at times in our life, where you're just questioning yourself, and are you good enough? Are people going to like you? And here's somebody that loves you and loves you hard and thinks your body is tight, you know, and, like - just really, really positive and builds you up. He's ride or die, you know? When you need somebody to come in and just give you a hug and a kiss, he's there for you, you know? Like, I love playing him for that reason. I love it.
LUSE: To pivot and to, like, go galaxy brain...
SEGARRA: I love galaxy brain.
LUSE: ...It feels like himbos are having a moment. I've seen it come up just with so many different TV shows and films. Why do you think himbos are having a moment right now?
SEGARRA: I won't speak for the masses. I'll speak for myself. The himbos that I grew up on are the ones that are affecting my performances now, OK? So that is "Billy Madison." Billy Madison, to me, is a himbo - right? - in what we're describing. That is "Tommy Boy," OK?
LUSE: Oh, yeah.
SEGARRA: That's Tommy Callahan, you know?
LUSE: Yeah.
SEGARRA: Dude, Will Ferrell is incredible at playing these characters that you may read one way, but they're something completely different. So why is it that - you know, maybe it's because people are looking for a little levity, you know? Like, maybe I think people are looking for a little bit of a positive outlook on things. Maybe people are looking just to simply laugh, you know? Like, we're all just trying our best, you know? Everybody - we're just trying our best.
So sometimes people are jumping on each other a little too quick, you know? And sometimes the people that are doing the jumping - maybe they just need a little compassion, you know? Like, I love you, Papa. Why are you so mad about this? You know what I'm saying? Like, I love you, man. Give me a hug. Come here, you know?
LUSE: My husband and I - sometimes when we get, like, frustrated or if one of us has, like, an attitude, you'll realize you have an attitude, and we'll just say, I just need some love (laughter).
SEGARRA: Yeah. That'll - that's it.
LUSE: And then I'm ask the other person for a hug 'cause it's, like - it's the most base thing. It's like, you know what? I actually need - like, I have an attitude right now 'cause...
SEGARRA: Yeah.
LUSE: ...I just need a little reset. I need a little reset.
SEGARRA: That's it. That's it.
LUSE: I wonder, like, do you see himbos, like, as possibly speaking to, or, like, in that vein of characters speaking to, like, a different type of idealized masculinity - like, maybe somebody who's a little more - maybe a lot more - chill. Maybe people are looking for, like, a different style of masculinity or a different way of how to be a man.
SEGARRA: Hundred percent. I think you're spot on with that. I'm super proud that I just get to be one little dot on that flag, you know, like, one little beat, one little piece of that puzzle.
I'll just say, like, in my real life, you know, I've got my three little boys. To me, one of the most important things that I just want to teach them is that it's OK to cry, and it's OK to talk about your emotions with us. It's OK to be vulnerable. It's OK to be yourself. Whatever you are, just know that me and your mom are going to love you immensely. And I know that because that's what I had my entire life for my mom and my dad. My dad is a really, really sweet, compassionate, tender energy.
And then when it comes to these characters that I play, man, it's fun as hell that I get to play these fiercely loyal, very compassionate, loving, vulnerable, emotional dudes.
LUSE: That was really thoughtful. Thank you so much. Josh, would you mind sticking around to play a game?
SEGARRA: I love games, Brittany. Let's go.
LUSE: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
SEGARRA: I would love to stick around.
LUSE: Coming up, Josh and I play a little game called Himbo Mania. Stick around.
Now, Josh, I hear that you are a huge fan of wrestling.
SEGARRA: (Laughter) Yes, I am.
LUSE: In the spirit of, you know, professional wrestling, we're going to play a game called Himbo Mania.
SEGARRA: I love it. I love it. Let's go. (Impersonating wrestling announcer) Welcome to Himbo Mania.
(SOUNDBITE OF WRESTLING BELL RINGING)
LUSE: (Laughter). So the way this game is going to work, I'm going to pit two famous himbos against one another, and you decide who wins and why. Are you ready?
SEGARRA: Wow. OK. This is a lot of pressure. Yeah, I'm ready.
LUSE: OK. First match.
(SOUNDBITE OF WRESTLING BELL RINGING)
LUSE: Our himbos are Kronk from "The Emperor's New Groove" and Fezzik, Andre the Giant's character from "The Princess Bride." Which himbo would you back in a fight against a creepy dude at the bar - not against each other, but against the bar creep - Kronk or Fezzik?
SEGARRA: Fezzik. I mean, like, it's Andre the Giant we're talking about. In character or not in character, that is the most legendary big man of all time. I got to go with Andre. At all times, I got to go with Andre.
LUSE: (Laughter).
SEGARRA: That's funny. You know, you've heard those stories about him - right? - where he puts - he would put back...
LUSE: No.
SEGARRA: ...Like, 60 beers in a day or something crazy.
LUSE: I kind of want to say how, but also, like, I mean, he was like - what? - 7 feet tall?
SEGARRA: That's it. Drink - 500 pounds, 7-feet-something - like water, like water.
LUSE: First round goes to Fezzik.
(SOUNDBITE OF PUNCHING)
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: K.O.
LUSE: All right. OK, our second matchup.
(SOUNDBITE OF WRESTLING BELL RINGING)
LUSE: Our himbos this round are your character, Lance Arroyo from "The Other Two," and Jason Mendoza from "The Good Place." In a head-to-head competition of who's better at taking care of a partner who is on their period, who's menstruating, who are you putting your money on - Lance or Jason?
SEGARRA: Look, Jason Mendoza - great guy, OK? Great guy. I'm sure he'd be fantastic at it.
LUSE: (Laughter).
SEGARRA: But Lance Arroyo - he would take care of you till you needed him no more. He would make sure that you're comfortable. He would make sure you're well fed, that you've got whatever cocktail you needed. Like, I'm just going to put Lance anywhere. You can put my man in the worst scenario possible on the planet, whatever that may be, and he's going to find a way to come out of there with a smile on his face and looking forward to that same exact thing happening again because I'm sure he's going to come out on top, you know?
LUSE: All right, Lance it is. Lance it is. Lance it is. I mean, I guess you can't really vote against yourself, so I feel...
SEGARRA: I've said - that's what I'm saying. You put me in a position where - how am I going to vote against myself, you know? Like, that's not fair.
LUSE: (Laughter).
SEGARRA: Jason Mendoza's - nice guy. But come on now. Come on now.
LUSE: All right, so our second-round winner is Lance Arroyo.
(SOUNDBITE OF PUNCHING)
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: K.O.
LUSE: Match No. 3.
SEGARRA: OK, hit me.
(SOUNDBITE OF WRESTLING BELL RINGING)
LUSE: Our final himbos are Bill and Ted from "Bill And Ted's Excellent Adventure..."
SEGARRA: Wow.
LUSE: ...As a pair...
SEGARRA: OK.
LUSE: ...And the other is Fred from "Scooby-Doo."
SEGARRA: Oh, wow.
LUSE: Yes. In a battle of who's best at helping friends move, who comes out on top - Bill and Ted, as a pair, or Fred?
SEGARRA: See, you're hitting me in my soft spot because I watch a lot of "Scooby-Doo" in my house. So I think I'm going to go with Fred. I just feel like Bill and Ted might get distracted, you know? Like...
LUSE: Wow.
SEGARRA: ...I feel like they would be busy. I feel like Fred - he's got a team that he's already responsible for.
LUSE: He has a van, too.
SEGARRA: He's got - yeah, I think I'm going to go with Fred. Think about how genius they are. Every week or every day, they have a new monster they got to find or a new criminal. They're just really smart. So I'm going with Fred.
LUSE: That's really fair.
SEGARRA: Yeah.
LUSE: And you're right. At the end of every single episode, they always figure it out.
SEGARRA: They always figure - they're batting a thousand. I've never seen them not figure it out.
LUSE: That's a really good point.
SEGARRA: They're incredible.
LUSE: I've never seen them not figure it out.
SEGARRA: I think Fred might be the smartest himbo out of this entire group.
LUSE: (Laughter).
SEGARRA: I feel like Fred is, like - you just made me realize that Fred, I think, is a genius, you know?
LUSE: Our third-round winner is Fred from "Scooby-Doo."
(SOUNDBITE OF PUNCHING)
UNIDENTIFIED NARRATOR: K.O.
LUSE: Well, Josh, these were sparkling insights. Honestly, you gave me a lot to think about 'cause I don't know if I had all the same choices as you, but you really turned my mind around on some of these guys.
SEGARRA: (Laughter).
LUSE: That was Himbo Mania. Josh, thank you so much for playing.
SEGARRA: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
LUSE: Thanks again to Josh Segarra. Season 3 of "The Other Two" is streaming now on Max.
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LAUREN: Hi, Brittany. This is Lauren (ph) from New York. I know you're a fashion girlie, and so I was just wondering what you thought of Pharrell's debut at Louis Vuitton.
LUSE: First of all, hi, Lauren from New York. Thank you so much for calling in. And also, thank you for calling me a fashion girlie.
Now, I have complex feelings about Pharrell's first showing at Louis Vuitton. I mean, I think that in many ways, he did some things that were adventurous, exciting, honestly pretty attractive and cute, like cute clothes - not going to knock him.
And the other thing I'll also say is I think he put on a phenomenal show - like, having the choir there from Virginia. Everything was so star-studded. It took place on that big bridge on the River Seine. It was, like, really, really cool.
But I just have, like, very mixed feelings about him not being an actual designer. Like, yes, I know that he has done a lot of jewelry design. He's collaborated on a lot of clothing lines, but it's just not the same as someone like a Virgil Abloh or a Marc Jacobs, who preceded him, or honestly, a lot of other creative directors at other major fashion brands.
I feel like what's happening with Louis Vuitton Men's right now is what's happening with a lot of industries where they're just bringing in celebrities to do the job of an artisan or to do the job of a journeyman.
And, you know, we'll see how it turns out. So I think, like, good first showing, but the rest of it remains to be seen. So, I mean, I guess I wish him luck, but he's already really rich, so he might not need it.
To all of you listening, I want to know what you want to talk about, too - anything from the biggest pop culture story of the week to the newest bangers to the TV show everyone is talking about. If there's something everyone in your world is going on about, record a quick voice memo with your first name, location and the topic and send it to . That's I-B-A-M at npr.org. I cannot wait to hear what you want to talk about.
This episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE was produced by...
BARTON GIRDWOOD, BYLINE: Barton Girdwood.
ALEXIS WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Alexis Williams.
LIAM MCBAIN, BYLINE: Liam McBain.
COREY ANTONIO ROSE, BYLINE: Corey Antonio Rose.
LUSE: Our editor is...
JESSICA PLACZEK, BYLINE: Jessica Placzek.
LUSE: Engineering support came from...
PATRICK MURRAY, BYLINE: Patrick Murray.
LUSE: Our executive producer is...
VERALYN WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Veralyn Williams.
LUSE: Our VP of programming is...
YOLANDA SANGWENI, BYLINE: Yolanda Sangweni.
LUSE: Our senior VP of programming is...
ANYA GRUNDMANN, BYLINE: Anya Grundmann.
LUSE: All right. That's all for this episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Brittany Luse. Talk soon.
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