LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Writers have spilled a lot of ink on the Watergate scandal. It's also gotten a lot of screen time, including in that iconic film "All The President's Men." But a new five-part miniseries explores one aspect that's lived in the shadows of the stories about President Richard Nixon and the journalist who exposed the Watergate burglary that ultimately led to the president's resignation in 1974. "White House Plumbers," premiering today on HBO, focuses primarily on two men tasked with covering up White House scandals and plugging leaks from inside the White House. They also planned and executed the Watergate break-ins. The so-called plumbers were led by E. Howard Hunt, a former CIA officer played by Woody Harrelson, and G. Gordon Liddy, a Nazi-sympathizing former FBI agent played by Justin Theroux.

I spoke with Theroux and director David Mandel, and they told me how they turned a dark chapter of American history into a tale that's so shocking, it's comical.

DAVID MANDEL: Those details, those things that you cannot believe are real, that you're kind of, like, laughing and horrified about it, that's exactly why I signed on. I don't want to put words in Justin's mouth, but that's why he signed on; that's why Woody signed on, is we all kept going like, this can't be true. Oh, my God. It's true. We have to do this. That's what it was. I will tell you, I certainly never thought of it as a comedy because, to me, it's such a horrific period in American history. I mean, obviously, it is funny, but to me, it's a tragedy that makes you laugh. The more we dug into the details, in strange ways, both the more tragic it got and the funnier it got. It was sort of an unbelievable thing.

FADEL: So I'm curious, Justin, what about your character's actually fictional? Was this who he was?

JUSTIN THEROUX: He wrote a book called "Will," which was his sort of autobiography, which sometimes reads a bit like a tall tale. When he talks about his childhood, he sort of depicts himself as this sort of scrawny Irish guy from Hoboken who got bullied a lot. And he would do these insane things to sort of get over his fears, one of which was he was afraid of rats, so he trapped a rat, killed it and then ate it. And he was afraid of thunderstorms, so he would strap himself to a tree during a thunder-and-lightning storm.

FADEL: Wow.

THEROUX: And I had sort of sympathy for him as sort of this bullied kid. Like some people who get bullied, they look for sources of strength in odd places.

MANDEL: Justin brought this up the other night, and I've been thinking a lot about it. If Gordon Liddy existed nowadays, you know, he'd be in a chat room somewhere. He's actually, oddly, a very modern character who was really mostly obsessed with getting famous, and he really didn't care kind of in some ways how it happened. There's a desperation to him. That's part of why he's so dangerous. So I find that sort of fascinating about him. And that's sort of something that I think Justin leaned into in just an incredible way.

FADEL: You know, watching it - what? - 50 years later, this thing that happened, watching your character in particular, Liddy, there was something very familiar about him, actually. I mean, he is one of the fathers of right-wing radio, a kind of Trumpian figure.

THEROUX: Well, I just saw the obvious parallels. He was happy to take a bullet for Nixon, literally. So I think he did, unfortunately, create a sort of a playbook for being unapologetic about criminal activity.

FADEL: There is another moment - again - a moment where I was like, let me just check. This is actually who he was. And it's a dinner party at Liddy's home with the Hunts where he puts on a record, and maybe you expect some jazz. Liddy opts for an Adolf Hitler speech about art as propaganda. And it's the first time you realize this guy seems to be dabbling in eugenics. We'll just play this clip.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "WHITE HOUSE PLUMBERS")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) How did you two meet?

JUDY GREER: (As Fran Liddy) His sister set us up.

THEROUX: (As G. Gordon Liddy) I selected Fran for her high intelligence. She used to work at IBM.

GREER: (As Fran Liddy) Receptionist.

THEROUX: (As G. Gordon Liddy) And, of course, her Celtic Teutonic genes.

GREER: (As Fran Liddy) Lineage is very important to Gordon, even more so than intelligence.

THEROUX: (As G. Gordon Liddy) I hope you all brought your appetites tonight because Franny makes a mean roast.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) I love them.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

ADOLF HITLER: (Speaking German).

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Is that Hitler?

GREER: (As Fran Liddy) Yes.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

HITLER: (Speaking German).

FADEL: So he's a former FBI agent, an Army veteran, a Nazi sympathizer. I mean, how did this guy have a line to the White House.

THEROUX: David? (Laughter).

MANDEL: I think, unfortunately, this true believerism that has been infecting politics really since Nixon, we keep thinking as an American people, we have very sort of - I don't know - I like to say we have very short memories. And so Watergate happens. And then we think to ourselves, well, at least that's over with. That can never happen again. And then it happens again and again and again.

FADEL: You've had experience before dealing with very funny, very corrupt characters in D.C. in the HBO series "Veep." How much did you draw on that experience when you looked at this project?

MANDEL: It is very different. Obviously, "Veep" is a pure comedy with very written jokes. You know, this show will make you laugh, but they're not jokes. It's character and real-world things that you just find so shocking and horrible, where this mix of, oh my God, they were breaking in to try and, you know, basically undermine the will of the American people. And they had to break in four times. And you sort of laugh uncomfortably at this actual fact that you just - even people who know a lot about Watergate don't know that fact.

FADEL: Yeah.

MANDEL: Really, these are guys that just are so desperate to be one step closer to power. And I think that's something that unfortunately infects just D.C. as a whole.

FADEL: But we're also watching at a time where we're living through the ramifications of a different attempt to overthrow a free election in this country through disinformation. And so, yeah, there was so much that felt so relevant to today, even though it was so long ago.

MANDEL: We certainly didn't lean into it, but we wanted it there that every time you hear them talking about the press being evil, you kind of would go, hey, that does sound familiar, and in a way maybe that if it gives you a chance to look at what's going on today and start to realize, wow, this has been going on much longer than I realize; none of this is new, that maybe it kind of gives you a little bit of perspective that you kind of get the modern-day perspective on Watergate, and you kind of get this 50-year perspective on what's going on right now in our government.

THEROUX: There's almost something kind of adorable or corny. I mean, it's obviously horrific. But it - by comparison, they were keeping the quiet part quiet still. And thank God Nixon could be shamed enough to actually resign. Whereas now there's been so many impeachments of both Republican and Democratic presidents, like, oh, we're at this procedural process; it's going to happen, that nothing happens.

MANDEL: The other day, the author and reporter Jonathan Allen just sort of said that it's important to watch this show because it reminds you what shame is. You know, we've all forgotten what shame is in politics.

FADEL: David Mandel is the director of the HBO series "White House Plumbers." And Justin Theroux plays the role of G. Gordon Liddy.

FADEL: David, Justin, thank you so much.

MANDEL: Thank you.

THEROUX: Thank you so much.

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